lmao! I bet you will!

Tho I’ll wear my Louboutins and La Perla panties anytime you like! ;)

There, feel better now?

What can I say? Catfights are catfights.

nina

Now….

Sniff sniff ;(

Something is seriously effing wrong with this world when a good effort like that goes to waste.

I guess I’ll go have to add some effing entries on my effing blog now to distract me from this effing disappointment.

I’ll remember this Lazy Geisha.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me(us).

nina

lmao! You’re such a capable little slut aren’t you?? ;)

Yes dearest, that’s exactly what it says! :lol:

Mwah!

xoxo,
nina

I think it says, “I want to throw you down and do you right here.” Is that close? :p <3

xoxo,
nina

Sometimes the only way to win is not to fight. Thanks…

nina

This should never be a career goal for young women. They should have a plan when they start, what they want to make, and then get out. Otherwise it gets to be a lifestyle. And those people usually end badly.

I don’t disagree with that at all. I have never intended to suggest that this should be a “career” for anyone.

But don’t be fooled by someone whose words say one thing and their actions say another even if they’re on a tv interview and saying all the right things. You don’t have the whole picture or the background.

I’m guessing you missed the part about my interviews with over 100 sex workers? That was before the TV interview, which had nothing to do with my opinions, actually.

Have another beer for me. ;-)

Nina, we’ll talk later. Thank you. I, too, am sorry for the way I’ve come off. <3

Understanding and agreeing are two different things. Maybe Nina can’t speak to some these things, but I can at length.

Wanna talk to Amanda Brooks, the author, she’s an acquaintance of mine for 3-4 years now . How about Holly B., she has a PhD and she’s a fierce advocate of this area; she’s also an acquaintance of mine. As are quite a few others. And not in the professional sense either.

I don’t know who you’ve talked to, but you can count on this, that there are as many hustlers out there as there are sincere people who like Amanda and Holly are working for a fair and even system and education.

This should never be a career goal for young women. They should have a plan when they start, what they want to make, and then get out. Otherwise it gets to be a lifestyle. And those people usually end badly.

But don’t be fooled by someone whose words say one thing and their actions say another even if they’re on a tv interview and saying all the right things. You don’t have the whole picture or the background.

I think we’re in the same camp, and we can learn from each other, but you also need to be aware that there are some people out there who are eloquent, but have always tended to seek the spotlight for their own ends under the guise of advocating for the “sisterhood”, while saying they’ve wanted to avoid publicity of any kind in the past. People like this end up hurting things more than helping.

Ok, I’ve had my beer now. And I’m ready to go.

Your points are all fair and valid — and you’re right, and I’m sorry. I wish that I had handled this differently with you.

I just wasn’t mentally prepared to read and ‘know’ certain things… I thought I was… but, it’s hard when you care about what happens to the person in question to detach the emotions. It is for me anyway…

I hope in time you can understand that and realize that there was no malice or judgment intended.

We each have strong opinions, formed by our own experience and life context — but I think we’ve both made too many assumptions at this point and it’s probably best for me to remain quiet now. I don’t seek or want an argument with you.

I do hear you, okay? And I do understand. And while I cannot and still do not agree with everything you’ve said — I do respect it, and you. And I’m truly sorry that this got so personal — that was my fault, not yours, and I’m sorry for that. I’ve been in tears over this since late yesterday and right now I just want to be quiet and think about things…

xoxo,
nina

You admit that all of your information comes from what you’ve seen in the media, and yet, when I point out that there are many of them who’ve written books, blogs and other material where it is clear to see that they’re not the dumb bimbos you make them out to be, you respond with “I don’t believe most of what I read on the Internet.” I find it ludicrous that you’d believe the media, which have never let the facts get in the way of a good story, yet when the sex workers themselves talk, you completely shut them out and refuse to believe them.

You talk down to me as if the fact that you’ve been on the planet longer than I have gives you some insight into what it is like being a sex worker when you’ve said you’ve never done it. And I know you’ve never spoken to any. I, on the other hand, have spoken to well over 100 at great length, and yet you summarily dismiss my insight as if it were the product of a 12 year old child simply because it negates the opinion you’ve already formed about it.

How could you possibly know that 20/20’s report was “balanced,” having never been there yourself? Oh, right, because you’ve seen it in other media reports. You’ll never see the media portray the work in a positive light because they’d get flamed if they did by the wingnuts and radfems. Every single sex workers’ rights organization spoke out against the lop-sided reporting that Sawyer did on that report. Every single one of them. Tell me again why their voices (you know, the ones who actually do the work) are less credible than that of a reporter with a pre-determined agenda, and who’s never been a sex worker herself? Is it simply because they make their living using their “pussy” and, by virtue of that fact, their brain must be dysfunctional and therefore they are automatically deemed to be non-credible?

Something has seriously gone wrong with the world when a college educated woman can earn more with her pretty face and her pussy than with her brain. Maybe it’s always been that way — we’re just way more aware of it now. It still makes me sad… and I don’t think it’s good for women either. It doesn’t give us power, it doesn’t make us stronger, it doesn’t advance equality for women and it isn’t about our claiming and owning our own sexuality either — it’s just another reminder of how the world values and sees us, despite whatever disillusionment we cloak it with. It’s still prostitution in the end.

You know, with the appropriate substitution of body parts, you can say the exact same thing about athletes, can’t you? Sex has always been treated as a commodity – always (and always will be). They don’t call prostitution the world’s oldest profession for nothing.

And once again, you show little true understanding of the world of the escort. It isn’t all about sex. In fact, many escorts will tell you a huge number of their clients don’t even have sex with them. These women provide intimacy, companionship, someone to talk to (about a wide range of subjects), etc. Everyone is different, and everyone must be dealt with differently. Their brains are just as important to their work as their “pussy” is. You are the one reducing them to just the physical act of sex.

And I’m reasonably certain you’ve never spoken with the girl who was caught up with Spitzer, so I’m not sure how you can legitimately characterize her as a “dumb girl.” For all of your posturing about being non-judgmental, you come across as….judgmental. What’s so sad about this is that you don’t even see that.

I’d give you some suggestions of stuff to read about it, but I don’t think you are even remotely interested in actually exploring the real world of the escort. Your mind is made up, and I’m not going to expend the effort to try to change it any longer. We’ll just have to agree to have different opinions on this one.

I did spend some time reflecting this morning, trying to decide whether or not my opinion would be any different if sex work paid no more or less than any other work (even minimum wage), and I have come to the conclusion that it wouldn’t. As I see it, if someone wants to use their physical attributes, regardless of what those are, to earn a living, then I see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Just because one person uses their arms (i.e., a Red Sox player) and another uses her pussy, doesn’t make one better or lesser than the other in my estimation. We all make choices in life, and just because someone else’s view of sexuality and how it should be used is different than yours or mine doesn’t mean their choice is any less deserving of respect than anyone else’s.

Thanks for all this, sincerely. It’s all very much appreciated.

I’m just way too sad about all of this to even be able to think of something good to say in response — I need to let it go now.

I made a mistake — and now I have to live with the consequences.

Tho I will say this —

“Why should someone accept $40/day when they can make $1000. [..] What’s lost in typical American fashion is that it’s all become glamourized. [...] I’m all for people making their own choices and hopefully staying safe (which is why I’m for sex workers’ rights), but there needs to be a lot of education (which is the missing part of the equation today, mostly it’s self-learning). This is not something women should jump into because it’s been glamourized by a bunch of misogynists.”

This is our fault. We’ve created a culture where this kind of high dollar prostitution has been glamorized and where young women actually think that this is a reasonable alternative. And it isn’t just the misogynists who have glamorized this — it’s the hypersexualization of our society where we read about everyone else’s bumps and grinds on the internet, or read about some escort’s every client (trick) on some blog and then plaster the pretty faces all over the front of our newspapers and television screens and talk about johns like Spitzer spending 80 grand a year on some dumb girl from Jersey and this all somehow seems perfectly reasonable and normal to us.

No - this is not normal and this is our fault. Something has seriously gone wrong with the world when a college educated woman can earn more with her pretty face and her pussy than with her brain. Maybe it’s always been that way — we’re just way more aware of it now. It still makes me sad… and I don’t think it’s good for women either. It doesn’t give us power, it doesn’t make us stronger, it doesn’t advance equality for women and it isn’t about our claiming and owning our own sexuality either — it’s just another reminder of how the world values and sees us, despite whatever disillusionment we cloak it with. It’s still prostitution in the end and it continues to perpetuate this culture of misogyny.

Thanks for the jokes…

nina

Thanks - yes they are tough issues. Tho the discussion had the unintended effect of bringing a lot of emotions to the surface and forcing me to confront some things within myself. I think — like with so many things — we have one attitude about something until it affects someone we care for and then we have an entirely different feeling about it. Is that hypocrisy? I don’t know… maybe it’s just human.

Maybe it has something to do with my age… that maybe I’m getting older and maybe I’m not as liberal as I thought I was? It’s complicated, kwim? Hard to get my head around.

I mean — I can understand something completely, but it doesn’t mean I have to like it.

I really haven’t been following the Texas story. It’s just creepy. I heard on one news program that one of the 16 year old girls had four children of her own, and it sickened me.

And you know — all it’s done is remind me once again that men will forever try to control the lives of women in one way or another, despite whatever illusions we (women) wrap ourselves with. No matter what the story, no matter what the subject is; a woman’s sexuality will always be at the center of it.

Thanks for the joke…

nina

If they really want to change things, stop servicing conservatives and republicans. Let them get caught and arrested like Larry Craig and David Vitter, and be shown for the hypocrites they are.

Looking back now, I think Diane Sawyer was too easy on her with the questions she asked.

Ps; pls fix that linkover run-on above. Like I said, it’s too early in the am without a Guinness Draught. Thx hon.